Which Is Better, Less or More?

8 Aug

 

 

Here is a very simple question for all people on every side of the gun debate in America, so please answer it honestly. And in today’s society either one of these scenarios is quite possible so please choose either possibility A or possibility B…no exceptions…no qualifying statements.

Question: In which situation would you feel the safest?

A. You are a concealed gun carrier in a bar filled with concealed gun carrier patrons.

                                                 OR

B. You are the only concealed gun carrier in a bar filled with unarmed patrons.

 

P.s. And if I took your gun away where would you feel (and still B) the safest, then?

14 Responses to “Which Is Better, Less or More?”

  1. A Voice August 8, 2014 at 6:20 am #

    Respecting the intellectual and emotive force of your post, I’m well aware that you know things truly aren’t that black-and-white. Simple, yes, but nowhere near that stark. What’s simple is that the welfare of the citizenry need not be a matter of all but pure commercial interest. This isn’t easy and there’s much to unpack, but it is quite simple…it’s just that the American people, juvenile and ignorant (wilfully or otherwise) are currently without the capacity to unpack this problem. Powerful, intelligent and caring people/groups need to have the strength of will to act so that this people, currently following shiny things like a donkey after a carrot on a string, will follow in tow.

    Virtue, here, needs to be mimicked before it is truly attained by the people. But those who are generally virtuous need to speak with force and otherwise act.

  2. salpal1 August 8, 2014 at 1:18 pm #

    well, to answer you, B is where I would feel safest, but would never be there. I wouldn’t carry a gun, and I am unlikely to go to a bar, so my gunless self and I will just stay home. 🙂 PS without the gun – definitely B

  3. 3boxesofbs August 8, 2014 at 2:14 pm #

    I would feel safest in situation A.

    Of course, as “A Voice” said it isn’t that simple. You left out a considerable amount of detail. Are the Concealed Handgun carriers doing so legally. Are the unarmed people average folks or criminals?

    I would posit a different scenario

    Where would you feel safest:

    A. — As the only person unarmed In a room full of people legally carrying firearms

    or

    B. — As the only person armed in a room full of criminals.

    Bob S.

    • A Voice August 9, 2014 at 1:04 am #

      I take considerable issue with the term ‘criminal’ being used so loosely in the over-arching conversation, not just here but in our politics.

      It’s entirely unclear if the term is used to describe (a) any and all criminals, (b) violent criminals that have been charged with misdemeanours, (c) violent criminals that have been charged with felonies, or (d) repeat criminal offenders of any stripe. For my part I haven’t seen any politician or, for that matter, anyone not in politics define what they mean by the term ‘criminal’ and why their definition is most appropriate.

      As someone with two counts of simple assault accounting for my criminal record as well as a BA in Philosophy and a MA in Christian Theology, I’m struck by the fact that I can legally purchase a firearm because my crime (it was one event) was a misdemeanour but I am precluded from any number of employment opportunities because of said record.

      My personal situation helps to shed light on the real issue here. The gun problem is much like many of our other problems in this country, it’s a matter of culture and incoherent standards. Some standards are allowed to exist side by side that either necessarily exclude each other or don’t sit neatly next to one another, however these must not be things that endanger the citizenry.

      Our criminal justice system all but literally branding people for life is a danger; our highly commercialised ‘healthcare’ system is a danger; our lack of standardised education and the commercialisation of higher education since, I think, the 1980s is a danger; our refusal to spend on infrastructure and technological research in a meaningful way in this area is a danger. And, sadly, there are a great many more.

      The gun issue is troublesome and the language we use, the loose and undefined way we use it, far more often for emotive than intellectual purposes, is something we need to address and fix to have a meaningful discussion.

      • 3boxesofbs August 9, 2014 at 1:30 am #

        Take issue but you didn’t answer the question.
        Yes, it is used in an over arching sense because it fits the issue. The issue isn’t the firearms but the people using them.

        That is what I was trying to point out. Intentions matter. Criminals are people who are breaking the law or have broken the law and NOT paid for that decision.

        Sorry you are excluded from certain jobs, I find that practice to be counter productive. Both to individuals and to society. Once people have answered for their actions; I think that should be the end of it.

        The gun issue is troublesome and the language we use, the loose and undefined way we use it, far more often for emotive than intellectual purposes, is something we need to address and fix to have a meaningful discussion.

        And, in my opinion, your question exemplified that problem. Your language focused on the object instead of the real problem — people. We don’t have a ‘gun problem’ in this country; we have a violent sub culture problem. 275,000,000 firearms owned by approximately 45,000,000 people. — and firearm related violent crime runs around 500,000 each year. Only 8% of the total of all violent crimes — Does it make sense to focus on that 8% ?

        Or shouldn’t we focus on violent crime where even a modest reduction in the total will have a greater impact?

        Bob S.

      • A Voice August 9, 2014 at 4:21 am #

        Please re-read what I wrote. I don’t think you’re missing the point intentionally, not by a long shot, but your response demonstrates missing the point. Your response is a bit too…heated, perhaps, would be the best word? Sometimes that gets in the way of our phrasing and our ability to really appreciate what’s being said. You seem to be a sensible individual and that’s what I think happened here.

        All things considered, we’re both right to focus on culture, the people, being the real issue. Perhaps the best question we can ask is if the American people have the intelligence, compassion and fortitude to undergo a major cultural change.

    • gpicone August 9, 2014 at 2:10 am #

      What would I or anyone else be doing in a room full of criminals unless I were a prison guard? And does simply having a legal gun permit make you not a criminal and prohibit you from ever being one?

    • gpicone August 9, 2014 at 2:49 am #

      we have 6 million 250 thousand violent crimes in America each year?

    • gdhayes2014 August 10, 2014 at 3:14 am #

      I appreciate your common sense comment. I, for one, in your described scenario options choose A over B.

  4. avwalters August 8, 2014 at 2:25 pm #

    I’m not sure how one “feels” informs the issue. All too often in this country, legislators address the “feelings” of (in)security, in the absence of facts. How else can you explain their vicious attacks on immigrant children, gun laws or the poor. Feelings are easily manipulated and framed for political purposes; they are not a reasonable measure of governance. Statistically, you’re at far greater risk in a drinking environment full of armed patrons.That should be enough to answer your question.

    I have no objections to gun ownership. Like most things–driving a car, cooking (knives), using heavy equipment–the social utility must be weighed with the social costs and regulated accordingly. I live in a rural area where hunting is a perfectly legitimate activity. Good thing, too, because we are absolutely overrun with deer (who breed like rabbits in an area already stripped of its predator tier.) Guns and gun culture are a big part of that. There’s a rifle range about a half mile from me, and they are always busy teaching classes on gun safety and responsibility. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

    Obviously you can’t say the same about the carnage in our urban streets, or the constantly recurring theme of the disturbed lone gunman wreaking havoc on the community for sins imagined or otherwise. You can see where “feelings” get us there. We need to strip this issue of its emotional tetherings and righteous (constitutional) roots. We need to regulate firearms as we do driving–adequate and appropriate training and the ready willingness to take away the right from anyone in whose hands it is too dangerous. That means rigorous background checks, including mental health reviews. It means required education. It means developing ascertainable standards, separate from the political hot buttons that currently control.

    For a start–anybody advocating Stand Your Ground as a reasonable legal framework is automatically suspect on the mental health chart–as either too stupid to own a gun, or too manipulative to be trusted to regulate them.

  5. Dan Hennessy August 9, 2014 at 7:06 pm #

    .C. ……..having legal concealed weapons , drinking alcohol ( How many drinks ? ) and using power tools …………..

  6. womanseyeview August 10, 2014 at 8:07 am #

    I thought your options cleverly made an obvious point about the absurdity of the ‘carrying a gun for safety’ culture you have in the U.S.

    • gpicone August 13, 2014 at 3:47 am #

      Thanks. Unfortunately here in the US mobilization and armaments (ala WWI) are still the key to diplomacy and defense.

  7. Outlier Babe August 21, 2014 at 7:05 pm #

    Simplied example/question, yes, but a good thought-provoking exercise. I really had to think.

    I think, as a woman, imagining walking into an unknown bar somewhere on the edge of town at night, that helped. In that case, I choose A, and would just hope that, the n% of effers who would consider assaulting a woman under those circumstances would have second thoughts knowing that she and everyone around him/them was (also) armed.

    Obviously no one with sense would want to shoot–especially not while inside the bar, . Insane.

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